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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin), bfwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Raven Blackburn),
        anthony@cs.pitt.edu (Michael Anthony Kapolka),
        mcknight@f104.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck McKnight),
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        jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com (James T. Perkins)
Subject: TML Bundle #278: Msgs 3363-3390
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From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com>
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Dec 29 21:00:11 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #278: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
3363  20-Dec-91 uunet!ssbell.IMD. T:TNE(?) Have I been away too long? << Greeti
3364  21-Dec-91 Pauli             Re: Re: (3355) Shields/Dune << >Has anybody e
3365  21-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse The best thing about Traveller << Chuck McKni
3366  21-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Hard Times is Out! << I dropped in at my loca
3367  21-Dec-91 npc@soliton.physi  << Subject: Jumping and Energy. X-Envelope-t
3368  22-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Efate << > From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agw
3369  22-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Shields/Dune << > From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN
3370  22-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: potential energy << > From: Adrian Hurt <
3371  23-Dec-91 Joe Heck          Merry Christmas << Just a quick posting befor
3372  24-Dec-91 cadpoole@atlas.cs Merry Christmas << Sorry folks, I couldn't re
3373  24-Dec-91 TML Administrator TML Hiccups (*BURP!*) << Just a note, folks. 
3374  24-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN RE: Shields/Dune != oynssork << Bertil, the o
3375  24-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Wormholes NOT << I haven't the time for a rea
3376  24-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Hard Times and Good TImes << Well, I'm going 
3377  24-Dec-91 Robert S. Dean    Seasons Greetings! << Merry Christmas and Bes
3378  25-Dec-91 npc@soliton.physi  << Subject: Wormholes NOT(?) WARNING longish
3379  26-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: The best thing about Traveller << > From:
3380  26-Dec-91 cdr@kpc.COM       Re: Efate << Anyone interested in a High-tech
3381  26-Dec-91 Joe Heck          Future history << I don't know about others, 
3382  27-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Efate << Thanks. Nice work. But you've fo
3383  27-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: The best thing about Traveller << Bertil 
3384  27-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Library data: National Reemergence << Here's 
3385  27-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Bugs << Errata for my latest postings: in 'Re
3386  27-Dec-91 Joe Heck          Ancient Site << Okay - for all you fanatics..
3387  28-Dec-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Ancient sites << Joe Heck asks: > > Okay 
3388  28-Dec-91 Mike.Metlay@organ Ancient sites << I'm in the middle of a recor
3389  29-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: The best thing about Traveller << > From:
3390  29-Dec-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Library data: National Reemergence << > F

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3363
From: uunet!ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM!chris@sequent.UUCP (Chris Olson)
Subject: T:TNE(?)  Have I been away too long?
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 15:41:40 CST

Greeting fellow travelleres!
 
It seems that my haitus from this list (~1.5 yrs since I've read it, but
only 6 mos. since I dropped it to keep mail-admin from complaining...)
has left me baffled.

Could some kind soul send me the scoop on T:TNE (Travller: The Next
Edition?)?  Information I would like to see (:-)):

	a)  What are they doing to the rules?
	b)  When will it be released?
	c)  Can I get my hands on a play-test copy?
	d)  Any and all rumors ;-)

The reason for the above questions is simple:

	I've run traveller before, and I'm starting up a new campaign by
	creating a universe for the players to explore/be from.  It'd
	be nice to do so with a coherent set of rules, not the gook that
	is MegaTraveller (Yes, I've run it.  Yes, I hate it :-().  And
	while Orig. Traveller is good (Yes, I've run it, yes I like it)
	there are several holes in the rules.

So, anybody out there got any answers?  My mail box is waiting :-)

Thanx,
	chris


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3364
Subject: Re: Re: (3355) Shields/Dune
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 12:28:45 +1100
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>


>Has anybody ever explained the body shields from Dune in traveller terms. 
>Tech Level, How they work, cost, and game machincs?

I'd probably rate them as an inferior form of white globe.  Therefore,
TL=20+  I seem to remember personal white globes as being TL=21 so it
might be possible to put them in at high TL20.  I won't say anything about
how they work.  The cost is going to be excessive if you can even locate
the things.

It might be saner to rate them as even more advanced than white globes since
they have properties that white globes aren't supposed to have --- transparent,
only allow slow things through.  I know that no players I GM for would get
their hands on a (fully) working version ;-}



        						Pauli

Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
Uni of Queensland       | JANET:           grue%cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@cs.uq.oz
                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!cs.uq.oz!grue
f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@cs.uq.oz.au

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3365
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 6:33:07 MET

Chuck McKnight writes:

>               ... if the Task system in Traveller was so horrid, how
> could it have last 15 years?

The background. The detailed painstakingly-worked-on-for-15-years
background that GDW now feels is too intimidating for new players.
I dunno. Maybe it is. But I do know that a science-fiction game
set in a universe with many worlds is inevitably going to be pain-
fully short of data. The player characters should be able go get
lots and lots of information about any planet they visit. But in
Real Life (tm) the referee usually just don't have the time to
work out lots and lots of detail. So what can he do? He can fall
back on a computer-generated list of numbers ("Well, it's got a
class A starport, it's roughly earthsized with a dense atmosphere
and it's about 1/3 covered with water. What? A map? No, sorry.").
Or he can use what other people produce. The Traveller universe
were just approaching a reasonable level of information (at least
in a few select sectors). And now they're going to 1) not fill out
what's missing, and 2) invalidate half of what's already there...

|-( Pfui! :-P


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
                "I am a jelly doughnut."
                        J.F. Kennedy

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3366
Date:     Sat, 21 Dec 91 19:27:33 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Hard Times is Out!

I dropped in at my local distributor's this morning looking for an extra
copy of Cats and Rats for a friend.  I was pleased to see that Hard Times
is out.  Hard Times is a sourcebook which explains the outline of the 
Rebellion from 1120-1125, and provides rules for determining the course
of the break down of Imperial culture from 1125-1128.  In addition, a 
connected series of ten mini-adventures is provided to show the break down
in progress, and discuss the strategies that planets are using to cope
with it.  Discussion and rules mods for starmercs, trade among the the
'wild' planets, new encounter tables, pirate group creation, and a few
other topics are included.  In addition, the rules for pre-gravitic
spacecraft are repeated (with some modifications) from Challenge#45.
(No, the fuel consumption for fusion rockets isn't fixed--multiply by
100 for more reasonable values, and don't forget the house rule fission
fuel fix I use...1 yr/1 hr.)  Data at the beginning and end of the decay
period are provided for two subsectors of Diaspora, on the borders of 
Margaret's domain.

(Oh--new rules: cannibalized parts, trading in worn equipment...)

I'm generally a fan of the work Chuck Gannon has done in Challenge, which
is one of the few things that keeps me buying the magazine, and this is
up to his usual standard.  In fact, I might go so far as to say that this is
possibly the best piece of MT support material to be issued by GDW, at
least as far as content.  (I have some quibbles with the format in some
sections--use of two columns on facing pages in such a way as to cause the
text to be read 1 x x 2 is potentially confusing, and a bit annoying to me
personally.  Your mileage may vary.)  However, some of you will not be
interested--it is dark and grim.  I find the release of this product
ironic in two ways: it shows marked improvement over previous GDW releases
at a time when they are just about to discontinue support of the game as we
know it, and it provides a reasonably well though out mechanism for providing
the 'Space Viking' setting without using any superviruses, and in a time
shift which isn't so great as to make playing through the intervening years
completely unthinkable.  (Thus, it's what we've been requesting, thrown to
us a bone to pacify us before the big change comes.)

Rob Dean

(Good looking cover art too, if a bit Star-Wars-y...)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3367
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 20:55:08 MST
From: npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson, University of Arizona)

Subject: Jumping and Energy.
X-Envelope-to: traveller@metolius.tek.com


Well, I thought I'd throw something into this discussion.  

Q:  How much energy is required to jump and can a fusion power
plant manage the energy required to escape a stellar gravity well?

A:  Assumptions:  one 4p -> He4 reaction leads to 26.73 MeV of 
energy available to the power plant.  I don't know if this includes
neutrino losses, but Nuke phys. isn't one of my physics specialties.

Also, the biggest jump you'd like to make is from Mercury's orbit
of a solar mass star to escape velocity.  This is reasonable to first
order because you don't want to get much closer to a star than this (at
least on a bound orbit) and as mass goes up, luminosity goes up and
you don't want to be close to that star.

Also, I'll use a naive starship of a HG type Scout ship which masses
100,000 kg and uses 20,000 kg of fuel to jump 2.  

The energy required to escape from the sun (GMm/r) at Mercury's 
orbit is 2.22 x 10^9 Joules.  I calculate that from 100% efficient
fusion (assuming the jump costs only escape energy) you could get
5.8 x 10^7 jumps from the Scout ship's required jump fuel.  Obviously
there are other costs:-)  

On a related note, I remember doing a calculation with Dow Rieder
(gods that was a long time ago) to find out whether such a scout
ship could thrust for 4 weeks (as the old rules seem to imply) on
its maneuver fuel.  We calculated 30% mass-> energy conversion
was required if all the energy were converted to acceleration.  
Obviously a problem.

The assumption that starship engines are 100% efficient is not
unreasonable, because if they weren't, the heat lost would fry
a starship in a fraction of a second (this is quoted from an
old Space Gamer, around #40 authored by a person whom I cannot
remember at this time.)  

Lastly, I like the idea about jumping from bound state to bound
state with the same energy around a companion star, but it has
some flaws.  How about transfer of angular momentum?  It may
not be possible to satisfy both in a jump.  Momentum would
have to take preference in the conservation laws as energy can
be released or absorbed by heat (and radiation.)  Note that
it would be theoretically possible to make a jump where the
energy released in the jump to be greater than the energy 
stored in the ship's heat, sending it below absolute zero in
temperature.  

One "physics nullifier box" solution may be absorption and
release of energy from additions or subtractions to the vacuum
zero point energy in the jump region.  Release would cause 
a lot of particles to appear and annihilate each other and
release a lot of energy.  Absorption is more of a problem.
Anyone want to consider wormholes?

Nick Christenson
npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu
#include <disclaimer.h>



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3368
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Efate
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 91 10:44:57 MET

> From: Cynthia_Higginbotham%agwbbs@cs.tulane.edu (Cynthia Higginbotham)
> Subject: (3360) Efate System
 
>     Efate is a Libertarian's dream and everyone else's nightmare.  The
> dominant society on Efate was founded by Solomani, possibly of Terran
> French or colonial French ancestry, judging from the French names in
> common use, but after a thousand years of folklore and revisionist
> history, who can tell?

  I believe that Efate is capitol of Tahiti or one of the other archipelago 
states in the pacific. I'm resonably certain that it was a French colony once,
since I looked it up for usable names when I did my version of Efate, and 
most of them were French (BTW, the result looked quite similar to yours: 
Libertaria with cyberpunk although I had more internal differences between the
walled corporate blocks and the slums on unused land. Also, all spaceports 
were either corporate, imperial (IN & IISS), or pay-to-pay. There were ofcourse
the possibility of setting down for free in a vacant lot in the slums, if 
one felt very adventureous:)

> p.s. I have a map of Efate, too, but it's on paper. Has the TML come up
> with some standard for uploading/representing world maps & deck plans?

  There is no official standard I think, but most people (Xfinger:) have access
to either Gif or postscript. I'd think that postscript is more usable for maps
since it is easily printable.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"What's wrong with the slums of Efate? I was born there you know!" 
  -- Preben Moeller, IISS.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3369
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Shields/Dune
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 91 10:20:23 MET

> From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
> Subject: (3358) Re: Shields/Dune
> 
> BAD SHARPE! NO BISCUIT! Body shields= force fields= STAR TREK or 
> STAR WARS. NOT TRAVELLER. Non-physics. Much useless handwaving.
> Enough trouble with thruster plates already. Bad bad bad.

  Ehrrm... Check out the secondary function of the oynssork (sp?) in the 
adventure in the good old Droyne alien module... :)
 
> metlay

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3370
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: potential energy
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 91 11:09:40 MET

> From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> Subject: (3356) Re: potential energy
> 
> "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA> writes:
> >		     More plausible would be to get it as kinetic energy,
> > but physical reality would almost certainly produce it as heat. Which
> > would vapourise the ship, very quickly.
> 
> Great.  Every ship that executes a jump gets fried when it re-enters our
> universe.  This ought to ruin the day of a good few traders!  :-)

  Since the original energy from the drives goes into the jumpfield, which is
held up during the entire jump to isolate from 'jumpspace' and the nessesary
energy for compensating for kinetic differences between the two locally 
strongest gravitational sources and the difference in potential energy is taken
from it. Isn't it easy to assume that an energy gain will be deposited in this
field?
  If it is, it would probably be radiated as heat energy when the field breaks
down at jump-exit. Is this enough to damage the ship? The density of radiation
(in the IR band, probably) is the determining factor here, and I don't know
enough physics to compute it without a lot of litterature that I don't carry
with me.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3371
Date:         Mon, 23 Dec 91 12:56:25 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Merry Christmas

Just a quick posting before christmas to wish all a Merry Christmas and
a Happy New Year.


Joe

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Joe Heck
(314) 882-2131

InterNet: CSPECJH@umcvmb.missouri.edu
BitNet:   CSPECJH@UMCVMB
cc:Mail:  MUCCGW.CSPECJH@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3372
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 12:15:01 -0400
From: cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Dale Poole)
Subject: Merry Christmas


Sorry folks, I couldn't resist!




                                   *
                                  / \
                                 /. o\
                                /   . \
                               / o .   \
                              / .   o   \
                             /     +  .  \
                            /  +   .   .  \
                           /  .      o  +  \
                          / o    .   .      \
                         /      o     o  .   \
                        /  + .      .     +   \
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                   ||
                        Merry     /__\  Christmas


               "Beware these two. The boy is ignorance,
             the girl is want. Beware especially the boy!"

                         - The Spirit of Christmas Present



Dale Poole
cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3373
Subject: TML Hiccups (*BURP!*)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 11:35:20 PST


Just a note, folks.  Metolius' fileserver, mozart, crashed for a couple
days over the weekend leaving metolius in a state where it had some
programs available to run and not others.  They put a bandage on mozart
and got it hobbling around again, and I believe I got all the incoming
messages digested and sent out yesterday.

Happy holiday break, folks!

James
"Help, I've crashed and I can't reboot!"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
    "How many ancients can dance on the head of a pin?" - Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3374
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 16:22:54 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: RE: Shields/Dune != oynssork

Bertil, the oynssork was a gizmo built by Yaskoydray. By metadefinition,
it has no grounding in recognizable game rules at all, and exists merely
to let players do something that the rules won't let them do. In the days
of Classic Traveller, ALL of Yaskoydray's artifacts served this function
as a sort of safety valve for tech-happy munchkins. There is NO precedent
WITHIN the rules, however, for such a gizmo, nor should there be.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3375
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 16:25:40 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Wormholes NOT

I haven't the time for a real post on this subject, but suffice it to
say that the use of Wormholes is NOT a good idea in explaining Traveller
Jumps. I went over the physics involved with a good friend who is also
(a) a gamer and (b) a General Relativist and ex-student of Ted Newman
(as in Newman/Penrose Black Hole Theory, Newman/Penrose/Chandrashekar,
etc.). We worked out what would happen to a star system that had a 
wormhole opened up anywhere near the primary or one of the planets.
The results were spectacular, but not very pretty.

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3376
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 91 16:28:34 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Hard Times and Good TImes

Well, I'm going to get Hard Times ASAP simply because I may be able
to spin off (would anyone want to add this to the TDR database?) a
non-virused future history for TNE. And Gannon DOES do good work.
I'd be interested in hearing what GEnie's folx are saying about it;
I had expected it not to make the presses at all.

On another note, I'm going to be away from my terminal until just
after New YEar's, except for brief checkins. Everyone have a happy
and safe holiday season, and try to keep the Droyne out of the
punchbowl....|->


ho ho f*cking ho,

metlay
^F

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3377
Date:     Tue, 24 Dec 91 19:27:11 EST
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Seasons Greetings!

Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for the New Year to all!

Let's get back to business soon, eh?  (-:

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3378
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 91 23:39:28 MST
From: npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Nick Christenson, University of Arizona)

Subject: Wormholes NOT(?)  WARNING longish science BS!

Metlay:

Probably this isn't the place to discuss this, but maybe someone wants to 
hear something other than the (very legitimate) Trav: TNG concerns.

Let's assume we have a 400 ton Free trader like the one in the Traveller
Book.  It has a radius (wingspan) of about 50 m.  Let's also assume that
the wormhole must be a created singularity with a Schwarzschild radius
just sufficient to swallow the ship (50m.)  Don't ask about the details.

>From R = 2GM/c^2 we get that it's mass must be 3.37 x 10^28 kg, or 1/60
of a solar mass.  We can get a very rough (order of magnitude) estimate
on how far any orbit will be deviated (assume the distance travel equals
0.5at^2, remember this is a very crude approximation.)  Then we find that
the (maximal) distance from its original orbit is x = Gmt^2/2r^2.
Where t is the amount of time the wormhole is in existance.  This formula
won't be too absurd as long as t is "small."  For a radius of 1 A.U.
for the above singularity lasting for, say, 10 minutes the deviation
would be 45 cm.  Not a big deal.  At a radius of 100 planetary radii, 
the calculated distance would be about 8 x 10^5 meters (I suspect the
formula wouldn't be valid here, but you could calculate the total energy
change of the orbit.)  This would be very measureable.  

Now, a lot of large ships jumping from nearby would cause a big 
problem to a system.  A naval station would have real problems and
jumping with a fleet in formation would be impossible.  Is this
what you found?  Are there other complications I'm overlooking?
(I'm choosing to ignore the creation of 1/60 of a solar mass worth
of energy to create the wormhole:-)  

I thought others may be interested in this but maybe private communication
would be more appropriate.

Nick Christenson
npc@soliton.physics.arizona.edu
#include <disclaimer.h>


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3379
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 91 13:17:12 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Chuck McKnight writes:
> >               ... if the Task system in Traveller was so horrid, how
> > could it have last 15 years?
> 
> The background. The detailed painstakingly-worked-on-for-15-years
> background that GDW now feels is too intimidating for new players.
> I dunno. Maybe it is.

  If it was, then TSR wouldn't sell any Forgotten Realms gameworlds and 
accessories. It is well known that I think that the background is the best
part of Traveller, and I'll reinforce that statement and say that Traveller has
the *best* background measured in consistency and amount of background
available for *any* SFRPG that I know of. 

  The trouble has been that there has never been any proper compilation of it.
No one source were you could go to find out if the stats for Norris had been
defined, or if the UPP for Deneb had been produced. So confusion and internal
consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started with MegaTraveller).

  For a good example of this, look up the UPP for Deneb in the Imperial 
Encyclopedia. I think it is under 'Travellers Digest' or 'Digest'. Compare
with the UPP given in the sector data from GEnie or in Digest the realworld
paper...

> The Traveller universe
> were just approaching a reasonable level of information (at least
> in a few select sectors). And now they're going to 1) not fill out
> what's missing, and 2) invalidate half of what's already there...

  The tactics adopted by the Traveller General Command seems to be "Make 
internal inconsistency the normal state" which looks to me as making morals
out of necessity (That was a poorly translated Swedish proverb:)
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3380
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 91 11:34:03 PST
From: cdr@kpc.COM (Carl Rigney)
Subject: Re: Efate

Anyone interested in a High-tech Libertarian Dystopia with cyberpunk
overtones should take a look at Jackson's Whole in Lois McMaster
Bujold's Barrayar series, particularly the 2nd story in _Borders of
Infinity_.  Actually, I'd recommend all her books to anyone interested
in Traveller - the background and tech is similar except there's no
Empire, the characters are likable and the plots are a nice
illustration of how easy it is for things to spiral out of control.
Although her setting uses wormholes similar to the Alderson drive in _Mote
in God's Eye_ rather than jump drive, her usage of the politics of
routes should interest any Traveller GM looking for some ideas.
The books I know about are these (in chronological order);
I recommend them all.

Falling Free		- corporate intrigue and engineering
Shards of Honor		- what its like to be a scout
Barrayar
The Warrior Apprentice	- fun with mercenaries
The Vor Game
Ethan of Athos
Borders of Infinity	- better living through biosculpt
Brother in Arms

- --
Carl Rigney
cdr@kpc.com

"There's more to life than marriage, synths, and Traveller...but so what?"
- -- Metlay (of course)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3381
Date:         Thu, 26 Dec 91 15:07:07 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Future history

I don't know about others, but I'd surely like to see any history data
in our archives if we can get it there! I'd be happy to move anything
you need about - although I might not be the most convenient for this
(being out in mid-missouri).

Happy New Year,

      Joe

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Joe Heck
(314) 882-2131

InterNet: CSPECJH@umcvmb.missouri.edu
BitNet:   CSPECJH@UMCVMB
cc:Mail:  MUCCGW.CSPECJH@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3382
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Efate
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 0:22:57 MET

Thanks. Nice work. But you've forgotten about the Ancients' site. :-)

BTW. Did you know that of the approx. 200 known Ancients' sites,
_6_ are in the Regina subsector?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- - ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3383
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 7:10:09 MET

Bertil writes:
>
>               It is well known that I think that the background is the best
>part of Traveller, and I'll reinforce that statement and say that Traveller
>has the *best* background measured in consistency and amount of background
>available for *any* SFRPG that I know of.

>  The trouble has been that there has never been any proper compilation of
>it. No one source were you could go to find out if the stats for Norris had
>been defined, or if the UPP for Deneb had been produced. So confusion and

You mean confusion went UP, don't you?

>internal consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started with
>MegaTraveller).

Not quite. There were a number of early Traveller ideas that were later
changed retroactively. One example is the scale of Imperial warships
that I've mentioned before. Another is the concept of The Spinward Marches
being on the very edge of explored space (remember the mysterious unknown
Outrim Void mentioned in _Leviathan_? That turned out to have a sector-full
of aslans, some of them long-time trading partners, on the other side.)

>  For a good example of this, look up the UPP for Deneb in the Imperial
>Encyclopedia. I think it is under 'Travellers Digest' or 'Digest'. Compare
>with the UPP given in the sector data from GEnie or in Digest the realworld
>paper...

Another example is the two sub-sectors of Trojan Reach published in
_Leviathan_. Whoever later generated the complete Trojan Reach apparently
couldn't be bothered to incorporate them properly but just generated
completely new stats for them. :-P

Btw. wouldn't that be an interesting project: A complete, collected-in-one-
place set of all published library data? Corrected for inconsistencies, of
course (except for such inconsistencies as might actually be in a library
data pack). I've produced a number of library data for my players, some
corrections of existing (inconsistent) data, others completely new. We
might produce something really useful there. Hmmm... perhaps two sets:
One ca. 1110 for Old Traveller refs and one ca. 1120.

>Me:
>>The Traveller universe
>>were just approaching a reasonable level of information (at least
>>in a few select sectors). And now they're going to 1) not fill out
>>what's missing, and 2) invalidate half of what's already there...
>
>  The tactics adopted by the Traveller General Command seems to be "Make
>internal inconsistency the normal state" which looks to me as making morals
>out of necessity (That was a poorly translated Swedish proverb:)

In this case I think that "dyd" should be translated as virtue, not morals.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3384
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Library data: National Reemergence
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 7:34:11 MET

Here's a library data entry that I cooked up to justify practically any
'theme' planet. If there's is sufficient interest I'll post other items
(I have to translate them from danish, so I won't do it unless it's
properly appreciated ;-)


- ----------8X-----------------------------------------------------------

NATIONAL REEMERGENCE: Social and political phenomenon seen on scores of
solomani-settled  planets  in the wake of the fall of the 2nd Imperium.
During  the  400  years or so that the 2nd Imperium survived,  a goodly
number of the thinly settled planets in Delphi,  Diaspora, Massila, Old
Expanses and Solomani Rim sectors were colonised from Terra.  Emigrants
had  a  tendency to go to planets where people of their ethnic and cul-
tural  background were already established.  Nationalism as such was an
ill-favoured concept in the days of The Terran Federation and continued
to be under under The 2nd Empire.  Peaceful culturalism, however,  were
not,  and  different  groups  usually coexisted without any significant
trouble.
    But as the Twilight fell and  The Long Night  grew steadily darker,
ethnic and cultural sub-groups on scores of planets dug up old cultural
differences  and  used them as a rallying point to increase the group's
sense of identity.  These reconstructed cultures were usually extremely
romantizised, often twisted almost beyond recognition,  but all of them
focused  on a past glorious grandeur and a coming similar glory for the
group.  Examples  are the  'truebrits'  of Cymbeline/Solomani Rim,  the
'inheritors'  of Scandia/Solomani Rim and the 'neo-germanics' of Funft-
reich/Diaspora.  Often an old forgotten language were reconstructed and
made the national language at the same time,  usually at the expense of
the anglic that had been the universal language of  The Terran Confede-
ration  and  The 2nd Empire.  On  some  planets anglic lingered on as a
second language,  on others it was vigorously suppressed.  Many planets
were renamed at the same time.
    Many  planets in the Domain of Deneb and beyond it was colonized by
neo-nationalists.  When their planets were reintegrated into  The Third
Empire  there  were usually groups that preferred emigration to staying
under the new regime. Thus Caledonia/Glisten was colonized from Duncan/
Alpha Crucis,  Ghandi/Lanth  from  Cathay/Vega and  Olympia/Lunion from
Athene/Ultima.
    Opinions about neo-nationalism is sharply divided.  On some planets
it  led to a greater sense of community,  prevented polarization of the
society  and  propably  to  a greater or lesser extent saved the planet
from regression or destruction.  On others,  especially on planets with
more  than  one dominant group,  it led to balkanization,  wars and de-
struction.
[Last update for this entry 109-1085]


NEO-NATIONALISM: See NATIONAL REEMERGENCE.

- ----------8X-----------------------------------------------------------

The 'last update' bit is something I came up with to inform players how
recent their information were. With electronic or holographic storage
individual entries can be updated seperately. Whenever you get access
to a reputable library data purveyor you have your computer run through
his data and update any item with a newer date. Some items gets updated
fairly frequently, other items rarely.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3385
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Bugs
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 91 12:13:41 MET

  Errata for my latest postings:

  in 'Re: The best thing about Traveller' I wrote:

  So confusion and internal consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started
with MegaTraveller).
  
  add 'went up' after 'confusion'.

  in 'Re: Efate' I wrote:

  pay-to-pay

  should be 'pay-to-play'

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3386
Date:         Fri, 27 Dec 91 12:11:42 CST
From: Joe Heck <CSPECJH@UMCVMB.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Ancient Site

Okay - for all you fanatics... Where are some of the lesser known, but
defintiely published, ancient sites in the Spinward Marches? If you can
give me any details, all the better.

I honestly don't recall many being published - even looking through the
DGP and GDW logs of star systems - I mostly made my own up when I needed
them.

Joe

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Joe Heck
(314) 882-2131

InterNet: CSPECJH@umcvmb.missouri.edu
BitNet:   CSPECJH@UMCVMB
cc:Mail:  MUCCGW.CSPECJH@SSGATE.MISSOURI.EDU

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3387
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ancient sites
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 91 23:00:13 MET

Joe Heck asks:
>
> Okay - for all you fanatics... Where are some of the lesser known, but
> defintiely published, ancient sites in the Spinward Marches? If you can
> give me any details, all the better.
>
> I honestly don't recall many being published - even looking through the
> DGP and GDW logs of star systems - I mostly made my own up when I needed
> them.

There's Victoria, written up in the _Journal_ #2 (and presumably
in _Best of Journal_ #1), and Fulacin, written up in Adventure 3,
_Twilight's Peak_. Both of these are very detailed. Knorbes has a
site that's mentioned very slightly in Adventure 1, _Kinunir_.
Pixie has one that's written up in _Traveller's Digest_ #21, but
before you place it there consider the likelihood of someone
coming from Trojan Reach on his way to Rhylanor with three friends
in cold sleep detouring to Pixie without consulting his friends
because he heard about an unknown Ancient site. If I ever run that
adventure I will change the planet to one more or less on the way
between Trojan Reach and Rhylanor.

Be that as it may, four more planets in Regina Subsector has
Ancient sites, though none are written up. Efate is one and I
forget the other three, but they're mentioned in Alien module
5, _Droyne_. Darrian was an Ancient planet (any planet except
Terra with a "native" human race was an Ancient planet), but
most or all traces are presumably gone. Andory and Vanejen were
Ancient planets too (any Droyne and Chirper world is). Any
asteroid belt in the habitable zone around a planet may be an
Ancient ex-planet. The Shionty Belt (where antimatter can be
found drifting around) is thought to be one such.

Incidentally, if a kilo of antimatter hits a ton of matter,
how much of the matter gets converted to energy?

Btw. I'd be very interested in any of your own Ancient sites,
if you've got them written up.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3388
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 91 18:57:53 EST
From: Mike.Metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Ancient sites

I'm in the middle of a recording session with three keyboardists
screaming for my attention and you want to know about Ancient sites?!

*sigh* The moon of Victoria in Lanth subsector has an Ancient site.
Andor and Candory have them-- one or the other was the Droyne home
world. When this session's over I'll try to look it up in my library,
but please remind me via Email if you don't hear in a week, Joe.

metlay

"No, I was BORN an electronic musician. I only DABBLE in outer space."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3389
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: The best thing about Traveller
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 91 11:26:51 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Subject: (3383) Re: The best thing about Traveller
> 
> >internal consistency went down over time (IMHO, it started with
> >MegaTraveller).
> 
> Not quite. There were a number of early Traveller ideas that were later
> changed retroactively. One example is the scale of Imperial warships
> that I've mentioned before.

  I am under the impression that there were a period of a few years, in 
gameterms(*) just before and after the 5th FW, when the universe were stable 
and established. I can write off any inconsitencies before that as 'childhood 
problems' for the game. But to step off this stable platform and jump into 
self-inconsistency is not a good move.

> >  The tactics adopted by the Traveller General Command seems to be "Make
> >internal inconsistency the normal state" which looks to me as making morals
> >out of necessity (That was a poorly translated Swedish proverb:)
> 
> In this case I think that "dyd" should be translated as virtue, not morals.

  Thanks. 'Virtue' is the right word.

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 3390
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Library data: National Reemergence
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 91 13:00:34 MET

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Subject: (3384) Library data: National Reemergence
> 
> NATIONAL REEMERGENCE: [..deleted..]

>     But as the Twilight fell and  The Long Night  grew steadily darker,
> ethnic and cultural sub-groups on scores of planets dug up old cultural
> differences  and  used them as a rallying point to increase the group's
> sense of identity.

  This highlights one of the IMHO most interesting topics that hasn't been
mentioned except in passing: What happened on Earth during the Long Night?
  
  There are some shreads of data: The moon was never abandoned. Late during
the night there existed an interstellar state incorporating Terra, so some
interstellar communications must have been restored by then. Other than that
we know next to nothing about a several hundred year long period.

  The reason this is slightly more interesting than "what happened on this-
planet-or-that-planet" is that the accounts of Terra around 1000 Imperial 
gives me the impression that nothing happened. A whole planet was just low-
berthed in 2400 Terran and thawed up around 400 Imperial with all place-names
intact, all old nations still remembered. S&A seems to indicate that the
great geographical changes like the flooding of the Quatara depression 
even happened before the 1st Insterstellar War. And since the Long Night fell
in -1700 Imperial, and the next mention is around 100 Imperial, we are talking
about a period of time of 1800 years during which nothing important happened!

  I'll be the first to admit that technology-wise nothing important really 
happened. Earth just passed the same techlevels twice, once on the way down and
once of the way up. But history is so much more than technological achievements.
Where are all the wars that can happen in 1800 years? Where are all the new
nations? All languages mutate over time but anglic still remains? Where are all
the great Heroes and Villains of history that appear during 1800 years? Where
are all the writers and all the new cliches?

  Can anybody remember any official or semi-official source that mentions 
anything that happened on Earth during those 1800 years?
   
>       Hans Rancke

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

